Piezography Third Party Ink Sets, Epson’s ABW Mode, and more Advanced Ink Techniques

Announcer 1: You are listening to the AskBC podcast – your printmaking questions, answered by the experts!

Justin: What’s up guys? This is your host Justin, and this is episode 15 of the AskBC podcast. Today we’re gonna talk about coating canvas, Pizeography and third party inks, and Epson’s Advanced Black and White mode.

Welcome to episode 15 of the AskBC podcast! Today we have with us a special guest – Renée Besta is joining us once again and we’re excited to get her input on today’s listener questions. If you missed episode 11, be sure to go back and check out our last show with Renée where we talked about things like rendering intents, choosing the right paper type, and more.

Hey Renée, how’s it going?

Renée: It’s going great Justin, thank you!

Justin: Awesome. Hey, thanks for taking the time out to join us here today, I really enjoyed having you on the last show so I appreciate you coming back. And if you don’t mind, I’m gonna jump right into the listener questions.

Renée: Certainly!

Announcer 2: Mike from MGPhotography.com asks, “How much time is recommended after coating or varnishing a print before moving on to stretching?”

Renée: Okay, for answering these three questions today, I’m gonna start by giving a short answer, and then I’ll follow up with some details. And the short answer to this is, it’s going to depend on specifically what type of product you’re using to coat your canvas prints, as well as the environment in which you work, the temperature in particular, and the relative humidity. So this is really a follow-up question to my prior podcast, which covered drying times before coating canvas prints, where I had mentioned there was a standard 24 hour rule to let the prints outgas and dry after printing before you coat them.

And again that’s particularly important for your substrates such as canvas or matte papers, and canvas does have a heavy ink load. So, I have a little caveat here, and I’m going to address canvas prints with matte surfaces such as Breathing Color’s Lyve that use matte black ink. Not the newer types of canvas like Crystalline that are going to use photo black ink that don’t require coating, and I know there’s quite a bit of confusion about it – I get that from printing students. Because there’s all these claims that, “Oh, this is an instant-drying type of canvas.” But that’s not what we’re doing here because those don’t require coating.

Now with that said, [unintelligible] in our products, as you know Justin, in the market today. They have crazy-confusing name like lacquer, and shellac, and varnish, aerosol spray, solvent, aqueous-based, and we have different application methods from your foam rollers to the HVLP spray gun, so I’m gonna answer the questions for Breathing Color products, but it’s gonna be best if you’re using a different product to contact technical support for that product, because I can’t answer for every product.

So with your original varnish product, Glamour, that needs to be diluted with water because of the leveling agents in there. And any product that needs diluting is therefor going to remoisten your print. So therefor you’re going to need at least another 24 hours after you coat before you do the stretching. And again, the prints may need more drying time, both before and after coating if you’re in a particularly humid environment, and in that case it may need even more than 24 hours to dry, so you have to plan that into your workflow.

And again it’s best to always work in a temperate-controlled environment, and you may need a humidifier or a dehumidifier. Now, when we look at Timeless, one of the advantages of that product is you don’t need to dilute it. So therefor the drying times are much, much faster – it can be dry in maybe an hour, maybe take a few hours, again depending on your environment.

Now I’ve, you know, combed the internet for years looking at different products. There seems to be a general consensus for a lot of products that are similar to Timeless that [unintelligible] six hours to be absolutely sure the canvas is dry. However, I do notice on your website, in one of the prior blog posts, that there is a reference to a canvas print corner fold test to check and see whether the canvas print is dry, so we can include those in the show notes, and there’s also a downloadable PDF on the Breathing Color website on canvas printmaking and varnishing, I think it’s something like “How to be a Varnish Master” – and there’s a lot of really helpful videos on coating.

So, I’ll include those in the show notes, and again if you’re using any product for the first time, always test it on small prints first. I see a lot of complaints on different manufacturers websites, “Well, gee, I did this.” Or they’re using something like Timeless on a photo print with a gloss surface and I saw that comment, actually, on your website. People are not using them properly.

Justin: Yeah, I think you brought up two good points already. You know, the environment is one of the biggest questions I get – or one of the biggest problems. People just don’t consider it.

Renée: You never consider, if you’re in the desert, something like Timeless, you know, you’re really dry and warm, it’s gonna dry maybe too fast, and you’re gonna have an issue.

Justin: Yeah, good point.

Renée: You have a lot of blog posts on this, but humid environment – obviously it takes longer, and now we’re dealing with the water issue, not the outgassing – the outgassing really refers to glycols that are in the ink sets. That’s the issue of waiting after printing before you coat. So, at any rate, if it’s Glamour or something such as that that needs to be diluted with water, you need to wait at least another 24 hours. With Timeless, you know, it could be dry, like I said, in 1 to 3, but if it were me, I’d wait 4 to 6, or do the print corner fold test.

Justin: Yeah, that’s kind of a good point, you can actually use the different dry times, you know, to your advantage, depending on what size prints you’re dealing with.

Renée: Absolutely.

Justin: You don’t want to take a 60” x 80” or something and try to coat that with Timeless with a roller or something, because that’s gonna be disasterous.
Renée: Definitely disasterous, absolutely. Just can’t get it done fast enough.

Justin: Yeah, exactly.

Announcer 2: Rick asks, “ConeColorPro’s Piezography Black & White ink set is rated far superior to the Epson OEM ink set for black and white printing. Are there any manufacturers that make third party color ink sets that have a superior color gambit compared to Epson OEM for my Epson 9800?”

Renée: Okay, the short answer is – the listener has sort of answered his or her own question. By mentioning ConeColorPro inks, they’re actually the very best third party color inks on the inks for Epson printers. And I say Epson, they’re not available for Canon printers. Why do I know this? Because I use them in my Epson printers.

Let’s just back up a little bit, for those people who don’t know John Cone. He is a digital printmaking pioneer, and one of the very top experts in the field. He runs a company in Vermont called InkjetMall where he sells ink sets, both carbon monochrome – so Cone Piezography inks for black and white printing – as well as color inks for Epson printers. He also has a company called Cone Additions Press, which is his digital printmaking studio.

So he really has a long and venerable history, and has really had numerous contributions to the field of digital imaging. So he’s perhaps best well-known for those carbon monochrome ink sets, which the listener mentioned – the Piezography sets for Epson printers. But a lot of people don’t know that he makes color ink sets. They’re now called, they were first called Cone Color, now they’ve been reformulated, they’re Cone Color Pro, and they’re almost 100% pure pigment, and they have more pigment actually than Epson’s inks. Fantastic color gamut, great dmax, they are fully encapsulated, less prone to clogging, and they are significantly less expensive than the Epson OEM inks.

Now to get back to his question – is there anything that has a superior color gamut for the 9800 – now it used to be, when he first started making the inks, you had to make your own ICC profiles because you could swap in more advanced ink sets in different positions in older prints, but those have now been completely reformulated to match the gamut of the Epson, so you can actually use Epson’s original ICC profiles for their papers.

Justin: That’s handy.

Renée: Which is really, yeah, it’s really, actually, very, very cool. And they are available for the 9800, as well as most Epson desktop printers – even the 13”, and professional printers.

Justin: Are those plug-and-play? Or is it like a refillable, manual…

Renée: They are refillable, and I’m just gonna get to that in a second here. Absolutely, what you do – well, I’ll just jump into that. You buy bottles for each ink, and the cool thing – because he has now reformulated these to match the Epson color gamut – basically, they come in bottles, and you can just put them in as your original Epson OEM ink is running low. Okay, so then you just pop in a cart with the Cone Color.

Now what you have to do, I have to just have a caveat here, this whole system isn’t for the faint of heart. Like if you’re not comfortable reading technical documentation and getting systems set up, you really need to be comfortable with that. There are a lot of great videos on their website available, but it’s actually pretty simple and you’re gonna save a lot of money.

Each color of ink comes in bottles of different sizes that will meet various, you know, production needs, and the initial cost for the ink is gonna be just slightly less than the OEM, but that’s only because you need to also purchase empty cartridges along with syringes and needles to get the system up and running, and then after that you just buy the bottles of ink as you need them. You can buy them one at a time -let’s just say your cyan is running low – okay, start with that, and fill a cart and substitute that. It’s not going – you know, you can just do them one at a time, that’s what’s so awesome; you don’t have to throw away ink that’s already there.

So you start by, what you’re gonna do – do not, whatever you do, throw away or, hopefully, recycling, the Epson OEM ink cartridges, because you need the chips on top of those cartridges to install them on the new, empty cartridges. So that’s how it works. So what you’re gonna do, you take the bottle of Cone Color ink, you rock it – or, slightly agitate it, to mix up the particles – draw it up into a syringe, they include the cartridges, along with the ink, and the syringe, and a needle, and a set of gloves, initially.

And you’re gonna put, or after you install the chip on top of the cartridge, which is pretty easy to do, it snaps into place, you just fill the syringe and inject the ink into a port on the side of the empty, new cartridge. Then you prime it, and just stick it into place in your Epson printer. And it’s basically that simple. The only thing that is different with this is that you’re not gonna be able any longer to monitor the ink levels as you can with your standard Epson driver software, where it says, “Oh, this is how much, you know, what percent of ink is left.” You’re gonna have to open the cover where the inks live and physically remove them and kind of monitor them, and as they run low you just inject more ink with the syringe and it doesn’t need to be re-primed.

So again, the advantages – it’s significantly less expensive, they have, probably even a better dmax, the colors are fantastic, you’re gonna save a lot of money.
Justin: I was gonna say, I think the – something that makes it really easy and makes it a potentially really easy transition is that it is so, like, plug and play, and the fact that you can mix them and put them right in, rather than like try to flush out the entire printer – which would be a pretty big hastle.

Renée: Exactly, that’s what we used to do. And I did that on an older printer. In fact, what they used to sell were the old continuous inking systems where you had a separate bottles outside with tubes running into your printer, which, you know, was kind of a real pain and you’re replacing everything at once. But again, when he’s saying – basically, I think the listeners question was, you know, “Am I gonna, you know, without upgrading my 9800 maybe to a 99, or a 9890, can I get something better?” These have basically been reformulated to match the Epson gamut. So, you know, probably, if he’s saying superior – I don’t know if it’s gonna be superior.

Justin: It’ll reduce your costs though.

Renée: It’s gonna reduce the cost. And they’re fully encapsulated and it’s been hard over the years, you know, Cone’s the only one that has been able to actually accomplish this, which is no small feat, I have to say. So, they are awesome.

One thing I want to say about Epson, I know there’s constantly this battle going on – “Should I buy an Epson? Should I buy a Canon?” There’s some Easter eggs with Epson, and one of those is being able to buy Cone Color inks, or the black and white inks, which are pure dilutions of black ink, or pure carbon pigment inks, they’re, you know, dilutions for each set.

You have to use some software called Quadtone RIP, which is produced by a black and white printer out here named Roy Harrington, he’s out here in California. That, again, is only available for Epson printers. So there are some other things to keep in mind if you’ve heard of, “Oh, I want to use Quadtone RIP for black and white printing,” or some third party ink sets, there is no way I would ever, I mean, the general rule is – don’t use third party inks. That’s true, I’m not gonna go to Staples, I’m not gonna go to Best Buy and buy some junk on the shelf, but these are just fabulous inks. I can’t say enough good things about them.

Justin: Let me ask you this: I have kind of, like, one question – I don’t want to get too far into the weeds or off on a tangent with it, but, in your experience, what’s the biggest factor that holds people up from switching off of an OEM ink to a third party ink?

Renée: Well, number one, there’s a massive, sort of, rumor out there, that number one, it’s gonna void your printer warranty. Now, I’m gonna provide you a link for this because there’s a lot of information on John Cone’s site. There was a huge lawsuit that was settled years ago. The truth is, it was determined that that is just not true, you can buy other consumables. However, there is a caveat that if, like, there’s an Epson tech that comes to your house and you buy some cheap junk from Staples, and they can prove that that ink, third party ink, caused damage to the printhead or something else in the printer, therefor that might void the warranty, but just by nature of using a third party ink set does not automatically void the warranty. So that’s not true. So that’s one reason.

The other is, the whole complicated thing you were mentioning like before with John Cone’s inks, it was much more complicated and you pretty much had to replace the whole system at once, you were using continuous inking systems, and it was extremely confusing, so, you know, that held people off. And, you know, again, the quality just wasn’t there, and that was like a big thing right there, was that.

And then, you know, once I saw some prints by some professional printmakers that used these, I was like totally blown away. And once they became plug and play, a lot easier. Now again, you do have to take the chips off the OEM carts and install them on the empty carts, so, I mean, these carts, believe it or not, they are expensive to manufacture. That’s why, initially, you think, “Well, why does it cost so much?” Just for a syringe, and a needle, and a pair of gloves, and some empty plastic, well they’re actually pretty expensive to have manufactured. So, sometimes people get confused because they’ll look at, “Oh, I’ve got to buy this kit,” but then they don’t realize once that, in fact, once again, when I buy most of my Epson ink and a lot of papers from IT supplies in the Chicago area, if you just look at their price, and they probably have the lowest price on OEM ink, it’s still like $54, or it’s like, well, I don’t know, it depends what printer you’re using and the size, but they have great prices.

And then you compare even buying this kit for one color; it is less than the OEM ink. But after that, the price is just hugely; it’s like one third of the price of the Epson ink.

Justin: Yeah, there’s an entry fee.

Renée: Yeah, people might not realize that and just say, “Oh It’s a hastle.” But it really isn’t because, you know, you can draw something up in a syringe and squirt it up in a cartridge, and prime it, it’s pretty simple, you just have to follow their YouTube videos by their text support manager Dana, who’s awesome.

And I think that’s probably why, or people saying they’re inferior. And again, yeah they have been inferior. Cone is an exception, again, he is a digital printing pioneer, I couldn’t say enough good things about him, and I’ve used the Pizeography inks too. In fact, I still have older desktop printers, like my old 2200, which is a 13” printer that took roll paper, that was back in 2005, was my first printer. And I bought the Pizeography inks for those, and they’re just – you just can’t beat it. It’s like doing platinum palladium printing, back in the old days, in the dark room.

Justin: Right, yeah it’s a pretty cool concept. I think we talked before about covering that in a blog post or in some other podcast episodes, so that’ll be exciting, I think people are pretty interested in that. Cool, so I think we’ve exhausted that question. Anything else to add to it?

Renée: No, I’ll just send a link to the listener for the page where he can buy these inks for the 9800, and just the link – you would think it would just be inkjetmall.com, and, you know, it’s kind of an odd URL, so I’ll make sure I get that to you. And I’ll not only be writing an article on Pizeography, but we’re gonna have some more questions coming in about black and white printing on the next podcast.

Announcer 2: Gerald from Schultz Images asks, “I’m printing black and white images with the Epson 3800. When using Epson’s ABW mode, I’m having the printer manage color instead of Photoshop, and an ICC profile. Does this cause an inferior print?”

Renée: The short answer is – no, this does not cause an inferior print. In fact, the ABW mode makes a superior print.

So let’s just kind of back up. The ABW is Epson’s advanced black and white printing mode, and the reason it was developed is that traditionally, there have been great technological limitations in the past with ink sets and printers that really rear their ugly heads with achieving great, neutral black and white prints because they often had a color cast. And they were awful. And that was one of the reasons, because of that, that when people first started doing inkjet printing and they wanted a nice fine art print, they were turning to the matte papers. Because of these issues. Although, as you know, the matte papers don’t have as great of a dmax, somewhat lower resolution, and other things.

So the idea was, what can they do to produce better neutral and toned black and white prints. [unintelligible] I kind of think of the ABW as sort of an Epson printer sub driver, and it just handles mixing the ink colors in a completely different way.

Now, I know there’s a little bit of confusion here when he asks – or he or she – asks the question, but the printer manages the colors and that’s what it shows in Photoshop or Lightroom or how you set it. And yes, ordinarily, absolutely you want to have Photoshop or Lightroom manage the color and apply the correct ICC color profile for your printer ink and paper combination, but for the ABW mode, the printer driver works very, very differently – it’s in a better way, but it’s still color managed. And I know that doesn’t make sense, but, sort of bear with me. What it’s actually doing – to produce better black and white prints, it’s going to limit the use of the color inks and it emphasizes the use of the dilutions of the black inks – that being PK or MK – photo black, matte black, light black, and light light black, etc. So it’s trying to use mostly those inks.

Now cyan and magenta, or vivid magenta, they are not used for the ABW mode. So the only inks used other than the black dilutions would be the light cyan, your light magenta, or light vivid magenta, and a tad of yellow. Now, the yellow ink has always been the problematic ones in terms of longevity, so it’s a great feature that it’s used to little in the ABW mode.

Now, this helps avoid these colorcasts by doing that. The advantage here is that you can start with a file that’s in RGB, or you can use one that’s already in grayscale mode. And as you probably know, a lot of people are using third party plug in software to produce a, quote, “black and white print,” they’re using Nik Software, Silver Effects Pro, online software has a way to convert to black and white, same with topaz, labs, there are a variety of ways, but the file is still staying in RGB. You haven’t discarded the color information. So you can use, in this case, the ABW mode, something in RGB that’s been toned, or a grayscale.

Also, the cool thing is, you can make a cool tone print to a warm tone print. Obviously, it’s adding color to do the toning. But again, it’s limiting color inks – like I said, the cyan and magenta. So there’s no split toning available in the ABW mode like there is with QuadTone RIP, and I’ll be talking about QuadTone RIP more in the next episode, again that’s Roy Harrington’s software to make better black and white prints on Epson printers.
Justin: What is split toning exactly?

Renée: Split toning actually means you can add the toning to either shadows, highlights, or midtones, and you can divvy that up. Maybe you only want to warm up the highlights, maybe you only want the midtones warmed in a certain way. And you want to use different colors, its not like – if you want to do a sepia tone, “hey this doesn’t look so great in the sky area, it’s too warm.” You want that more maybe in midtones or shadow areas and you want a lighter tone in the highlights. Now that is one of the phenomenal advantages to QuadTone RIP, you can break it down and have different curves for shadows, highlights, and midtones, you can adjust them exactly to your specifications. You can’t do that with ABW, but you can tone the entire image from cool tone or neutral all the way to warm tone.

But anyway, getting back to, you know, what the listener was saying with pro files, and I don’t want to complicate it too much because I’lll be doing another podcast on this, but there is a way to use black and white ICC profiles with the ABW mode, and that is done by installing Eric Chan’s ABW profiles.

Now, Eric Chan is an engineer that works for Adobe, and evidently he’s got some phenomenal connections at Epson, and I wish I had those connections [laughs]. And he’s got a fantastic website with tons of information on Epson printers. Obviously, as a coder, he knows how to make these profiles. So what he has, and I’m gonna give you a link to this, he’s got black and white profiles for various – not only Epson papers -but third party papers that you can download for free and you can use those in conjunction with the ABW mode.

So in that case you would select in Photoshop, Photoshop manages colors, you would pick the ABW profile for the paper, and then just go through the standard ABW workflow, so that can be done and that makes fantastic prints because, as you know, it, you know, with the ABW mode with Epson, that is engineered to work, of course, with Epson papers, just like with everything else – which we’ve talked about before and in my article on using third party papers. You know, “What do you do if the media types don’t match.” So, as always, if you’re just getting started and you want to try using ABW, use the Epson-branded media. You know, it’s matched, you know, to work with that.

And yes, you can use third party papers. You can always make your own custom ICC profiles, but you have to be sure, again, that you’re picking the correct Epson media type in the driver. Both for their media, of course, but especially for the third party media. Otherwise, you know, it controls the ink load, how the ink is mixed and sprayed onto the paper, so it’s really important that the correct media type is selected.

But anyway, I have tested, I have those installed, Eric Chan’s ABW profiles on some Byrata papers, and he’s got a nice selection there and he keeps adding to that, so you have to keep checking back on the website, but they work very well, and I’ve had, you know, great luck just using the ABW mode. And I use QuadTone RIP as well, so, you’ll have to stay tuned for the article and another podcast, but I’ll sort of like go over the order if somebody’s very interested in making the very best black and white prints.

The top thing you can do is to purchase and use John Cone’s Pizeography inks, and use those in conjunction with Roy Harrington’s QuadTone RIP software. There’s nothing in the world that is gonna give you a better black and white print, and it’s gonna have the most longevity, I mean it’s gonna rival those of platinum prints. I used to do platinum printing back in the darkroom days. Those inks are, again, they’re pure carbon pigment inks, and they’re just dilutions, I mean, so what you have to do is dedicate an Epson printer to black and white printing, basically, and you put in those carts and, again, they’re refillable.

And instead of having the color [unintelligible] inks, and instead of having like photo black and light black, it’s just gonna keep going with dilutions of black ink so there’s no color to contaminate. So then the question becomes, “Oh, how would I tone my print? Or make it sepia or selenium tone?” And the answer is, he sells different ink sets for toning. So if you just buy the plain neutral sit Pizeography inks, the color or tone you’re gonna get is based on – what is the paper color? I mean, is it a warm, creamy paper, is it, you know, more of a pure white, bright white paper. It’ll be dependent on that. But you can buy the sepia, you can buy selenium.

And, the great thing with those, again, you can mix and match them, because they’re completely interchangeable in the proper position, or the proper dilution. So, you can mix sepia with the, you know, the neutral. So that kind of is a way, and again with the QuadTone RIP, you know, you can do split toning.
So the QuadTone RIP – it’s donationware. He asks for fifty bucks, you can download it for free and try it. It comes with, one thing I would say about that, the beauty of that, and that’s what I always used before Epson had the ABW mode, because it makes fabulous black and white prints, and the beauty is – you have two choices: you can either use Epson’s UltraChrome inks and use QuadToneRIP, you can also purchase the carbon monochrome inks and print that way.

So, however, if you’re gonna use the UltraChrome inks you need profiles for QuadTone RIP. He provides some with certain papers, if you want other papers you’ll have to make your own.

And so then, the next best way is to use the QuadTone RIP with the Epson OEM inks, as I mentioned, and then using Epson’s ABW mode or Eric Chan’s ABW ICC profiles with that ABW mode. So, hopefully that makes some sense.

Justin: Yeah definitely, so I guess like at the top of the list, the top being most ideal, is the QTR – QuadTone RIP – with the Pizeography inks. Below that would be QTR with the standard ink set?

Renée: Yeah, the standard ink set.

Justin: Or, would that be ABW?

Renée: No, you can’t use QuadTone RIP with ABW. QuadTone RIP is a completely separate driver. So, actually, I’m using a Mac and on the Mac what you have to do is add it as a, quote, “new printer,” it thinks it’s a new printer so, like, if you’re using a 3880 as the listener said, there’s a printer called “Quad-3880,” you add that. You have to install the profiles, so it runs completely separately than the Epson driver.

Justin: So which would have a better result: the printing through the driver with the ABW or printing through QTR?

Renée: In my opinion, I get better results with QuadTone RIP. And maybe that’s because I’ve used it for so long, again, in the early days when I first started printing – it was ten years ago now in 2005 – and [intelligible] was the Epson Stylus Pro 2200, it was like revolutionary, but I always liked black and whites. I worked in the darkroom, and I never did color printing, it was too exacting. But I did do black and white printing. I went to New Mexico and took a workshop on Platinum Palladium Printing, and so I had an interest in that, and maybe it was easier for me because my background is actually in chemistry, so that’s really helpful.

But I could never get a good black and white print using the 2200 – it would drive me crazy. It would have a green cast or a magenta cast.

Justin: Sure.

Renée: And I was doing everything properly, so I found out about that and, in fact, I had the pleasure of meeting Roy Harrington because I produced a black and white photography exhibit here in the San Luis Obispo area and invited him to be the juror for the exhibit. So he came down, he lives in the San Francisco Bay area, and was kind enough to come down and jury the show and I got to hang out with me. He’s a really wonderful man, and it’s just great to have people like that around where you can pick their brain, you know, and get information that you normally wouldn’t because, basically, to get support for that, there’s some good documentation for that on his website – it’s just quadtonerip.com, I’ll include that in the show notes.

Justin: Now they can just “Ask BC” [laughs]

Renée: Yeah! He has a forum on Yahoo, a black and white printing forum, where a lot of people will make profiles and share them with other people for third party papers.

Justin: Cools, seems like the lowest barrier of entry if you’re just getting into —

Renée: Is ABW.

Justin: Yeah, just try out ABW and if you want some more functionality or, you know, more accurate looking black and whites then kind of move up from there.

Renée: Right, that’s correct. Or you might have great success, again, just using Eric Chan’s ICC profiles with the ABW – you know what I’ve gotten great prints.

Sometimes it depends on the image – what colors are in it to begin with and how that converts to, quote, “black and white” or “gray scale.”

Justin: Sure, and kind of what your own expectations are, right? Like, how perfect does it need to be for you?

Renée: Exactly. Each person is different, and some people can be extremely exacting.

Justin: [laughs] Yeah. Definitely. Cool. Well is there anything else that you think should be added to this question?

Renée: I don’t think so, I’ve really gone over maybe more than I intended to.

Justin: [laughs] We covered it pretty well.

Renée: There’s another question on ABW that came in from someone that I probably answered a lot of it in this, but will be taken on the next podcast.

Justin: Okay, cool, so stay tuned for that next episode if you’re super interested in ABW stuff, black and white stuff.

Well, cool, that’s actually the last question I have for you as well, so nothing else to add to that. I just want to say thanks again for, you know, coming on to be on the show again, and I just want to say again that I hope people are taking the time to read those articles that you’re contributing to the Breathing Color Blog and taking the time to listen to these shows, because you’ve clearly kind of set yourself up as an expert in the industry. So getting this kind of free content is pretty huge, and I hope people kind of see that as the benefit that it is. So again, thanks for taking the time.

Renée: Well, I appreciate that. I am always trying to learn. You know, it’s really, really hard out there on the Internet. I’ve taken; I don’t know how many books I have on fine art printing, and workshops I’ve taken, and just, online training. Its frustrating, as you know, getting trained even for your position and trying to get through all the junk out there and get to the truth. I just wish I had some inside connections to Epson.

Justin: [laughs] Yeah. Definitely. Cool. Well is there anything else that you think should be added to this question?

Renée: I don’t think so, I’ve really gone over maybe more than I intended to.

Justin: [laughs] We covered it pretty well.

Renée: There’s another question on ABW that came in from someone that I probably answered a lot of it in this, but will be taken on the next podcast.
Justin: Okay, cool, so stay tuned for that next episode if you’re super interested in ABW stuff, black and white stuff.

I just want to say thanks again for, you know, coming on to be on the show again, and I just want to say again that I hope people are taking the time to read those articles that you’re contributing to the Breathing Color Blog and taking the time to listen to these shows, because you’ve clearly kind of set yourself up as an expert in the industry. So getting this kind of free content is pretty huge, and I hope people kind of see that as the benefit that it is. So again, thanks for taking the time.

Renée: Thank you very much for having me Justin, I appreciate it.

Justin: Thanks Renée.

Well, that’s it for today’s episode guys. Thanks so much for listening, and for the show notes for this episode you can visit ask-bc.com/episode15. Thanks for all your questions and for being a part of the conversation.

For those of you who made it on the show today, I’ll send out a free Breathing Color t-shirt to each of you. And if you don’t mind, head over to iTunes and leave us a review if you find this show to be helpful or useful. The iTunes reviews are kind of how we get feedback, and kind of let us know were headed in the right direction for you guys. To ask your own question or the show, just visit ask-bc.com, and if we choose to put your question on the show, we’ll feature your business name and also send you a free Breathing Color t-shirt.